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We are called Romany~Gypsies

I am a proud Romany~Gypsy who is about to give the very "Dinlo Gorga?s" that post here, slandering my race, a piece of my mind. For those who do not know Gorga means non-Roma~Gypsy. So my fellow gorga humans what is it you all hate so much about us? Lets list 10 things that are hated most, while your thinking I shall list ten things that Romany~Gypsie?s hate about you gorge?s
1./ We hate when reading the papers or seeing on the news story's of the murdering Gorga's.
2./ We hate when reading the papers or seeing on the news story's of the gorga rapist?s.
3./ We hate when reading in the paper or seeing on the news story's of the gorga child molesters.
4./ We hate when reading in the paper and seeing in the news the gorga child abusers.
5./ We hate when seeing on the news and reading in the papers about "the old house dwelling gorga lady" who's found dead of starvation and has been there for weeks.
6./ We hate that the old peoples homes are full to bursting has none of you gorge?s want to take care of your mum's and dad's.
7./ We hate that the social workers are worked to death because young gorga teenage girls are sleeping about and getting pregnant (thank god there not getting aids).
8./ We hate that the hospitals are under strain where the gorga are out binge drinking and needing medical attention.
9./ We hate that our hospitals are strained because of the gorga who are taking drugs then needing medical attention.
10./ We hate the fact the gorge?s look at the ?minority? of bad Romany~Gypsies because all the time they are concentrating on us they don't have to look at what the majority of there own gorga community are doing.

Published by tacho at 4:49pm on Tue 24th January 2006. Viewed 59,720 times.


Published by gramsci at 5:07pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

Thank you

Published by tacho at 5:21pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

I hate driving past the A14 traveller site and seeing numerous burnt out cars and masses of rubbish dumped over the fence. Otherwise I don't have a problem with Romany~Gypsies, though I think there is a serious image problem, and the current state of the site on the A14 doesn't help at all. The state of the site is an ongoing problem, as well. It is cleaned up fairly regularly, but within weeks, soon becomes an eyesore. Thousands of people drive past it *an hour*, and everytime they see it, it reinforces the negative stereotype.

So, as a close knit community, I'd suggest putting pressure on those who are allowing this negative sterotype to flourish.

Recently, we had some travellers (ethnic origin unknown) in our office car park for a few days. They were polite, tidy and caused no problems. The fact that they tidied up after themselves made me see them in a different light. However, a few months later we had a further encampment in an adjoining carpark who left human shit everywhere, threw rubbish around the carpark and the next day a car parked in the carpark had been trashed, undoing all the good work of the previous occupants.

So, in short, I don't think anyone object to people who behave in a civil fashion. In fact, I'd go as far to say some - maybe even many - people sympathise with the problems travellers face. I think I'd be right in saying that the traveller community is self-policing, and therefore internal encouragiment of all encampments to behave in a civilised fashion and tidy up would go a long way to undoing the negative image.

FWIW, I agree with many of your points about the "Gorgas"

Hope that helps.

Published by makeitfolky at 6:32pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

Seems like a lot of hate and generalisation going on in the post by Tacho.
I take it that the Gorgas poor behaviour is reflected by your fantastically good behaviour, and none of the Romany Gypsy population take drugs, get pregnant or get pissed for instance or use hospitals.
What we are seeing here, by the generalisations, and sweeping statements is a crude form of racism, or at least an ?ism? of some kind.
The invitation to list ten things that are hated in the behaviour or activities of any group is asking for trouble and should be discouraged.

Don't Romany have to have their origins in Romania/Hungary, being originally from India?
That's why ethnic gypsies are dark skinned and Asian looking.
Has the phrase now become a general term for ALL gypsies?

Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 7:05pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

And by the way, being 'proud' of something you have had no influence over, by your actions. IE: your race. Is a behaviour of someone that thinks they are better than others, or more dagerously other races.
No one is better than any one else, untill you take into account their actions.
It is your actions, not your origins that you should be proud of, or ashamed of.

Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 7:11pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

Couldn't have put it any better makeitfolky.

I'd just add that I think you can apply a lot of tacho's post to a majority of human life. A romany gypsy family lived close to my family when I grew up and were extemely nice people and it's a shame that there are those who have tainted the image in such a horrendous way that makes the debate on this board so offensive. I'd rather have that family living next door to me than the community project who bought a house in our street and gave us a series of occupants who thought nothing of threatening people with knives, breaking into property, driving a extremely high speed around the road without car lights, music at all hours...the list is endless. Not the fault of the occupants so much as bad manners on the part of the housing co-op who failed to give support to the people they are meant to be helping or acknowledging complaints. I also know that when I was a student I wasn't the most considerate neighbour in the world! I bet that applies to a majority of us.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that life is about give and take. It's probably a bit much to say 'love thy neighbour' but it doesn't hurt to be considerate, and it doesn't cost a penny.

Published by Smithy at 8:07pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

I am also a Romani~Gypsy and proud, however I have been brought up in a house and have had the best of both worlds as I was growing up. I have seen the differences in behaviour, morals and standards, and more importantly have 'felt' the difference in how I am sometimes treated by gorjas. By the way gorja is not a derogatory term, and I have never known any Romani~Gypsy or indeed Traveller to have a derogatory word in our own languages about gorjas... gorja's have 'many' for us! Gorja exploit our ancient and beautiful language whith disregard and disrespect taking our words and making them 'dirty' and negative.
We have all read the comments by some of you, and you have made yourselves very clear as to how you 'perceive' anything Gypsy. Discussing our people in such an horrific way on a public forum is living proof of the way in which we are treated, whether we travel, live on a site or in a house. Laughing about setting us on fire and watching us burn is not funny as we are human beings just like you and we also feel pain just like you, bleed the same colour blood as you and have family and friends who love us enough to morn the loss of our lives to yet another racist attack by gorjas. Some of us are refused service in various establishments... not for drunken loutish behaviour, not for being rude and insulting, not for innapropriate dress... simply for being Gypsy. Some places hang signs on their doors stating "No Gypsies" This is the 21st century when 'racism' is a highlighted issue, and such offensive actions and descriptions which have been given to us here on this site would never be neither allowed nor accepted if it were Asians or blacks you were slandering. Years ago, yes Asians, Blacks and the Irish had the same treatment in this country, yet it still seems acceptable for gorja to treat us in this way to this day!
The first thing my father ever did before moving into a house was to have all the floor boards lifted and cleaned, including the loft, so while you are calling us "dirty gypo's" you may consider that cleanliness is part of our culture. Then think on more as you run a vacuum round your homes with your nice expensive carpets and the filth is festering underneath it!
I may add another thing to Tacho's list which I hate about gorja's... and that is when I see on the news and read in the papers about what many gorja's do to animals.. the cruelty and neglect is shameful. This is something you never see within Romani~Gypsy societies, we have kept horses for eons. One of my own family trades was that of horse dealers, and some of my uncles knew the secret of horse whispering. It is a fact that we Romani~Gypsies pride ourselves on horsemanship and never mistreat or neglect any animal. We are renown for our knowledge of herbs and their uses because wherever we have Travelled and stopped we have always had a great respect for the land... we learned about herbs from having respect and not abusing any land we have stopped at. Next time you are in your local pub, take a good look around at the frosted glass designs and remember that this was a skill introduced by our people as a passing trade as we travelled from one place to another. Compare those designs with the great skill and craftsmanship of our old horse drawn vardo's you will see for yourselves where your pub window designs come from.
Finally I just wish to add that I am appauled by some of the comments I have read from you on this site, and if we were to class ALL gorja the same as you, then you would all be sick minded murdering individulas, without moral, class or dignity.

Published by Rawnie at 8:08pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

To Goose Speaking Bread I am interested in what you wrote here "And by the way, being 'proud' of something you have had no influence over, by your actions. IE: your race. Is a behaviour of someone that thinks they are better than others, or more dangerously other races."
This in its self is good advice but a few years to late, Hitler and is hunch men have already confused pride with importance (I think that?s what you are trying to advice me of ,being careful of having to much pride?). You see, I am proud that doesn't mean I hold myself in higher importance as Hitler did. My ancestors were on the receiving end of self importance, percentage wise more Gypsies than Jews were murdered in Hitler?s time. There for my human sister you will understand that you misinterpreted what I meant. To be proud of what I was born is my way. I know Rom who denigh their origin through fear of negative repercussions for being rom. This to me equals sham, the opposite to shame is to be proud it is as simple as that. I shall repeat in case you have not read the post. My list is for the gorga who have slandered my people on this site, there's an old saying about fighting firer with firer, some times we have no choice. I can not recall reading any one on here putting straight the gorga's who are so full of hate they talk of death of my people. I will not slander nor defend the travellers as they are made up of all walks of life including the new agers who are gorga, you know the ones who are not clean who shit every where with their flowing dread locks that run alive with head lice, travellers are also Irish Scottish Welsh I have no interest in defending this group of people and can only agree with what?s said about them.
I knew by posting a word that ment "clubbing" together all these hatful people her would up set others, I think i have proved that, whats the difference in righting The gypsies or the gorga's? I'll tell ya tyhe posters on her say that along with barstard and setting them alight and theives. See like I have already said I am giving it back but by the look of it the slanders are only happy slandering they can not handle being slandard........again i am not sorry for that.
Just a little more insite into my person, I do not hold importance to creed, colour, social class, religious prefference or any of the such. I judge by what I see and read, there is no hatred in me my sister I believe in live and let live and commen sence tells us all there is good and bad in all, NOW ONE LAST TIME MY LIST IS FOR THE GORGA'S WHO HAVE POSTED BEING SPITFUL TOWARDS GYPSIES. I'll hold my hands up in saying that i am a tad childish in my wanting to get them all back..............but who's perfect?

Published by tacho at 9:09pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

Good night all looking forward to chatting again soon, to the rawni rackle cam tute tacho kushti romany phen xx

Published by tacho at 9:11pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

Tacho you are a person after my own heart and I couldn't agree with you more my phen! Remember we are a race of people with pride and dignity we are Rawnie's and Rye's, in its true sense of the word ... perhaps this is something to which these gorja's who have slandered us may learn from us?
Trees with 'deep roots' do not fall down in a hurricane but withstand the winds of time, just as our people have always done. You are correct to mention Hitler, as not many gorja even know that our people were in those camps being experimented on, kept in the most appauling conditions, starved and killed in the most heartless, cruel and inhumane way possible. Perhaps these gorja's are not aware that our little children were also experimented on and kept in filth not fit for animals... innocent little children who didn't know that humans could be so cruel and heartless as our children only learn love from us .... but child abuse in ALL its forms is from the gorja world and not ours. The reason many of these gorja's are not aware our people were in those camps with the Jews is because of racism and refusal to recognise the importance of the pain this caused. There is no justice in a racist mind or heart... only hatred and a lust for all things evil.
We do not teach our children to hate, and this is a word which is never uttered by us in front of them, yet they soon learn the word from gorja's, who sadly also teach them the true meaning of the word.
I also wish you all a good and peaceful sleep, and hope that the bed bugs don't bite or the dust mites don't make you sneeze!
To Tacho, kam tute. Tatchipen se avree! Acoi se amaro nevi atching tan! Sal ... Del O dinilo's bengalo tan!!! Opre Roma!! xxxx

Published by Rawnie at 10:19pm on Tue 24th January 2006.

> Some places hang signs on their doors stating "No Gypsies"

I cannot recall seeing any public place hanging such a sign in recent years - In fact I can't recall ever seeing such a sign. If you care to give an example of where such a sign exists, I will happily support you in making a formal complaint, which I'm sure will lead to very swift prosecution.

Published by makeitfolky at 4:44am on Wed 25th January 2006.

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Published by d-wayne-love (not active) at 5:47am on Wed 25th January 2006.

I'm afraid I have chaps, quite a few times and on one occasion when all that was happening was that they were burying one of their own who had died young and needlessly.
One of these venues was a pub a lot of us hold dear to our hearts as well....

In fact I remember that day well, you couldn't get a drink in Cambridge all away along the river and into town.

Published by 209radio at 10:34am on Wed 25th January 2006.

Hello 'makeitfolky' ... I hope you are well today? With regard to the question you ask me, I have copy and pasted several examples from various sites, which proves this is a widespread problem. It has become such a problem that The Commission of Racial Equality (CRE) has become involved and are currently pettitioning the government to act on this issue. Hanging such signs on establishment doors etc, has been illegal since around 1960, however, with regard to Gypsy's & Travellers most establishments who practice this form of blatant racism and discrimination have evaded prosecution. The CRE have found in their research and studies into this matter, that the writers of these signs evade prosecution for the simple fact that racism towards Gypsies and Travellers can be found at all levels including goverment. I have included the links to each site, as if you would like to take the time, there is a lot more in-depth information regarding the daily issues of racism for Gypsy and Traveller people. Thank you for listening.
Like racism against asylum seekers, racism against Gypsies is socially accepted. In some parts of Britain you can still read signs declaring ?no Gypsies or Travellers?. If similar racist literature were produced against Jewish or black communities there would be uproar. In a recent case a ?bonfire society? burned a caravan effigy bearing the number plate ?pikey? (a racist term for Travellers) and escaped prosecution.
Travellers also have problems getting on GP?s waiting lists.
"Every piece of government legislation for Travellers comes in the form of criminal law. There are anti-social families on every housing estate but the estate is not closed down for that reason. Yet that is what happens when there is one disruptive Traveller family in a community," said Fr Brown.
"No Caravan-Dwellers" and "No Travellers" signs are still widespread, despite breaching the Race Relations Act, and 63 per cent of caravan parks admit to refusing accommodation to families, even if pitches are available. In Scotland, less than 20 per cent of Gypsy children attend secondary school regularly.
Shocking to me was the content of the information on the current living conditions of the Roma. They are truly an oppressed people group, not only in Romania but all over Europe. One of the most disturbing facts that I learned from my research was the practice of signs hung near the entrance of shops and restaurants that state: "No dogs or Gypsies admitted" or similar sayings such as "The management reserves the right to refuse service to Gypsies?".
Research by Save the Children (1996) into healthcare for women in Scotland showed that almost a third of the women interviewed had been refused registration at a GP surgery at least once. This is due partly to bureaucracy and paperwork, partly to ignorance about Gypsies? and Travellers? needs, and partly to indifference stemming from prejudice.
In a recent representative poll conducted by MORI in England, more than one-third of the adults who took part admitted to being personally prejudiced against Gypsies and Travellers. This was greater than the levels of prejudice reported towards lesbians and gay men, other ethnic minorities and people with disabilities (Stonewall, 2003).
The bonfire celebrations in Firle, East Sussex, in October 2003, where an effigy of a Gypsy caravan was paraded through the streets before being burned, only served to confirm the extent of open public hostility, especially towards unauthorised encampments.
Discriminatory signs and advertisements in the 1960s were partly the reason for the first race relations legislation in Britain. Forty years on, ?No Travellers? and ?No Caravan-Dwellers? signs still appear, in blatant breach of the law.
CRE to remove all 'No Gypsies and Travellers' signs from Wales by May 2006 Back
04 May 2004
The CRE today announced that it is to work towards the elimination of all ?No Gypsies and Travellers? signs from Wales by May 2006, as part of their two-year 'agenda for change'.
Sarah Spencer, CRE deputy chair said:
Discrimination against Gypsies and Travellers appears to be the last 'respectable' form of racism. It is still considered acceptable to put up 'No Traveller' signs in pubs and shops and to make blatantly prejudiced remarks about Gypsies and Travellers.
"It has been offence to display an advert or sign which discriminates against certain groups since the Race Relations Act came in 1965," he said.
"If you saw a sign banning black people from a shop there would be outcry, yet signs banning travellers and Gypsies are still being used.
"This has been unlawful for almost 40 years and yet these sorts of signs are being used.
"People know exactly what they are doing when they put these signs up and they think they can get away with it.
"The main area where it happens is in pubs and some shops especially where there is a travelling community.
"It is public racism and we want to eliminate it in Wales by May 2006.
"It is not the biggest or the worst problem in Wales but it is one thing we can do something about," he said.
The CRE is relying on the support of the public to report any discriminatory signs or notices in businesses across the country.
With regard to the burning of caravan and efiigies in Firle: "There seems to be a wider issue there of anti-Catholicism, all happening under the watchful eye of the east Sussex constabulary, so it would be interesting to know their view on race crime," said Father Joe Brown of the Catholic Church?s Traveller Chaplaincy. "There need to be steps taken to ensure that this year will never be repeated."
The Irish deaths in custody group CEART has likened the burning of the effigies in Firle to "the cross burning carried out by the KKK in American states during the Black peoples fight for civil rights during the 1960?s."
Seven people have now been charged by Sussex Police with inciting racial hatred over the actions at Firle.

Published by Rawnie at 10:52am on Wed 25th January 2006.

Please feel free to ask us as many queations as you wish, providing they are decent, intelligent questions worthy of an answer! Perhaps you gorja's could explain to us why you so avidly 'hate' a race of people you know nothing about? To hate my people is to hate me, and I can assure you, non of you know me enough to hate me or even dislike me. Perhaps you could tell us why you assume so many derogatory myths about us? Why you assume us to be liars and thievs? I would like to know if you even know the differences between Irish Travellers, New Age Travellers and we Romani's?
Very best wishes to you all.

Published by Rawnie at 4:09pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Phen, I think this will answer your question re' do these people even know the differece?
I've been awake for 7 hours and I'm still learning stuff! How cool is that!
OR, oop North we tend to be quite blunt about it - either "gypos" or "dirty thieving gipsy bastards" usually does the trick.
Published by Yorkshire Lad at 1:11pm on Tue 7th October 2003.
Fuck off. They're all pikey scum.
What red and yellow and looks good on Pikies?
Wankers. The lot of them. Find me an honest one who's never stolen or handled stolen goods and I'll show you my red baboon ass.
Published by Father_Shabooboo at 5:38pm on Thu 16th October 2003.
If anyone here can honestly say they don't believe it's part of their culture and that they know a pikey who's not nicked anything, ever, then I'll back down. Along with backing down in believing Hitler was the most brutal, prejudiced human ever and that nationalism is the banner of ignorant hate.
Published by Father_Shabooboo at 3:12pm on Fri 17th October 2003.
Does anyone know which pub in Cottenham was bought by the aforesaid "Roma / Gypsies / Travellers"? Was it the Chequers? Because there was a murder there on Saturday night ...
Of course, it could never have been anything to do with them ...
Published by Old Rocker at 12:16pm on Tue 2nd December 2003.
Enough said don't you think? What hatred?

Published by tacho at 4:35pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

I agree Tacho... its very sad, especially as our own children don't even know the meaning of the world until it is taught to them in EVERY aspect of the word by gorja's.
Yes, Romsni's 'hate' we hate lies and deception, we hate murder and cruelty.. these things we can never understand. We have to remember that these people are of the same 'breed' which invaded the American continant and butchered to Native Indian's to near extinction! Centuries later their seed are still the same caliber!

Published by Rawnie at 4:57pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

What key opens any door.
A Pikey.

Published by TheBaron at 5:09pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

I was pretty disgusted to read the comments on the "pikeys" thread - which I haven't bothered getting involved in.

There is a lot of misunderstanding between the various cultures. I think travellers don't do themselves any favours, and I'll repeat, I think there is an image problem. I respect the self policing culture,and I think the lack of community and family is one of the biggest problems in our society. However, I think this can and has opened up a divide and created a "them and us" attitude on both sides.

This suspicion isn't helped on the occasions where "unfortunate" circumstances have surrounded facilities provided for travellers. The condition of the A14 traveller site *IS* a disgrace (why the burnt out cars? There really is no need), and the behaviour at the Meldreth travellers site were a site was all but destroyed by travellers (not my words: was similarly disgraceful. The behaviour at Smithy Fen certainly hasn't helped any image problem, and there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest the suspicion and contempt is a two way thing.

The fact that the travelling community is self policing means that this minority which causes the problem - and there is a problem - should be dealt with internally, and if that doesn't happen, it's not particularly surprising that us "Gorgas" look into the closeknit traveller world with a bit of suspicion. That said, a thread like "Pikies" really doesn't help build links.

Rawnie: Thanks for the links. I will have a look through

209: I enjoyed the program put together by travellers by the way. Will there be another one? I do remember the occasion now you mention it. The funeral of Fred Moss I believe? There is also one Sunday a year when the pubs in town don't open - when the showmen are leaving town I think (what is the relationship between Romany & Showmen? Showing my ignorance, I know). There have been some incidents involving the fair over the years which I think led to this.

Finally, I used to work at a club way back in the 80s when the local travellers hired it out for birthdays etc. Some were rude, some were indifferent, some were polite and some were very friendly, just like a normal night at in a club, and it was never as bad as people said it would be. (I remember an *awful lot*of money used to go over the bar on those nights. Huge amounts...)

Published by makeitfolky at 6:16pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 6:30pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

hey phren,

I am upstanding gypsy, and I support you.
but at the same time we can find many things we hate about eachother.
if both sides of us, try to find about atleast 1 thing we like about eachother, maybe we can solve the prejuidice.

custi bok and cam

your romani sister and phren
upstanding gypsy

Published by upstanding gypsy at 6:44pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Hello Makeitfolky! Hey thanx for your great reply, and very respectful and intelligently written if I may say so!
To answer your questions as best I can:
The link your provide is regarding Travelling Showmen and NOT Romani~Gypsies.
The Smithy Fen travellers site in Cottenham is not only a hot topic in our local press, but regularly makes the headlines in national newspapers too. A group of IRISH TRAVELLERS arrived on the site 18 months ago. Since their arrival, tension has been high between the villagers and the travellers. Local people have blamed the travellers for an increase in anti social behaviour.
I hope this helps dispel any further 'myths' about Romani~Gypsies morals, standard and behaviour within our own communities and those of others. As I stated before a big part of our culture is that of 'mokkadi' which is adhering to strickt hygien at ALL levels! We have travelled for centuries, and many Romani's are renown knowledge of herbs, wildlife and fish life... in order to survive our nomadic life we HAD tolearn, HAD to adapt AND HAD to have a deep rooted respect for the land and wildlife!
Very best wishes to you!

Published by Rawnie at 7:55pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

hopefully mate, Jake Bowers is pursuing funding to carry on the work

he is also coming in for the RSL to talk about bullying in schools and to talk about the media in general. He's in a great position as both Romani and a respected journalist (Grauniad, Auntie etc)

here goes my impartiality but I am very glad that Romani people are now using this board and I feel they are making good points in a less than black and white situation. And never doubt there is fault on both sides.

much better than a lot of reactionary morons that have crawled from the woodwork, I cannot believe some of the words being used and frightening assertations. You make me sick.

All of our saving grace is that thankfully the travellers guilty of wrongs are like the gorja guilty of wrongs- they are a minority. Most folk of any walk of life are decent.

It's just like school, you always get the idiots disrupting the others who are trying to get their heads around a difficult subject, which this matter of understanding certainly is.

I don't claim to be Romani but I certainly have a portion of Romani blood. It will be a great day indeed when Gypsies can walk proud and tall in Cambridge(shire) and no-one bats an eye. There's work to be done on both sides to achieve that.

Published by 209radio at 7:57pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Hello Upstanding Gypsy! Its wonderful to have you on board our vardo here! Welcome to the discussions! There are actually a few of these gorja's who are gaining my respect more and more! Like our people have always said 'there's good and bad in all walks of life' and we judge as we find without generalising!
Kushti bok!
Miri phen! R

Published by Rawnie at 8:00pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

The underlying issue is Trust.
When two people dont trust each other there will always be conflict.. I have read pretty much all the posts on this subject and I refuse to post under the 'pikies' heading but I want my say.
Fact is, I have to say that I have been ripped off twice to date by travellers and I hated them for that, not because of the money but because they made me suspicious of all travellers. But the universe works in a big circle and I am also delighted to say that I trade on a regular basis with others who treat me with respect and pay me.
Recently we found an advert for a fridge freezer which we really needed. We arranged a meeting with the seller at Chesterton and who turned out to be a Fen Rd Lad. We were very concerned but followed them into the park. And was greeted by an imaculate FF and a very polite and house proud Lady Traveller. We got a real bargain no doubt about it. And it wasn't nicked... I have the receipt to prove it.
I love Irish music and play on regular basis in Cambridge, it has occured to me that Irish travellers must have sessions (irish music played almost like a jam session) and if I can ever summon enough courage I intend to try to get invited to one, as for Romani Gypsies I am sorry to say that I dont know any, but I have been to Romania a few times and they really do get a rough deal there.

The travellers that ripped me off can go to hell as can the thieving bastard solicitors, wheel clampers, corporate accountants, and politicians that rip us ALL off whenever they can.

Correct me if I get this wrong but I believe they have a saying there...
'When i die, bury me on my knees because thats how I lived my life'

Published by customize at 8:11pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Hello Customize, I enjoyed reading your post, and I am glad that you are starting to note and recognise the differences between other groups of Gypsies and Romani~Gypsies.
The saying you have quoted "Bury me standing, I've been on my knees all my life" is a Romani saying, and there is a book of the same title by Isabel Fonseca. I have added a link where you can read about her book, and it also gives a good insight to more about Romani peoples and our history, and more importantly what this saying means.
Here are a few more Romani sayings:
"You can't hide a cat in a sack, its claws will show themselves (through it)" ... This means the truth will eventually reveal itself... Romani's despise lies and liars!
"If you want to see the fish, don't stir up the water" ... Approach a situation carefully, don't be rough of hasty. Romani's would rather try to understand a situation by communication and good customs rather than 'fight' it out.
"The rain may come tomorrow but the wind will dry it" .... Always optimists, behind every cloud is a silver lining.
"The wind doesn't recognise whose waggon it blows over" ... Misfortunes affect everyone regardless of their wealth or status.
"Don't scratch where you don't itch" ... Don't make trouble. Let sleeping dogs lie. Romani's are a peaceful people and don't like trouble.
"The Romani steals a chicken, the gorja steals the farm" ... Like the differences in society, Romani theft is correspondingly minor when compared with gorja theft.
Very best wishes to you.

Published by Rawnie at 8:52pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

And to you..

Published by customize at 8:54pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Incidentally, whilst in Romania a Priest from Bucharest managed to steal a quantity of the aid we were delivering. We were 'fined' constantly by Romanian Police just for being British whilst just North of Bucharest Romanian Gypsys were reported to be adopting street kids and raising them as their own.

Published by customize at 9:03pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Re Gypsy music / Culture. There's a good album by Charles Parker & Ewan MacColl "The Travelling People". It's actually a radio documentary originally broadcast in the early 60s mixing recordings of gypsies talking about their lives, heritage, culture etc. with some traditional music and some new songs. If your interested in the human aspect rather than the tabloid anecdotes it's a fascinating album. The most interesting bit for me is the old guy talking about the his Great Grandfather telling him about the land they used to camp on being fenced off by a Lord and them being left with no where to go.

Worth a listen:

Published by makeitfolky at 9:13pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

I just wanted to add that Romani~Gypsies are not Rumanian! There are Romani's in Rumania, as there are in other countries all over the world, but we originated from India, Punjab & Rajasthan many many moons ago! I have added a link to a pretty good site which will tell you quite a bit about our history as well as other interesting things!
Once again thank you for according us respect and giving us your time!

Published by Rawnie at 9:19pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

So anybody who is not a Romany Gypsie is called a Gorga- OK. And we are responsible for the worlds ill's?

Well, theres a heck of a lot of Gorga's all over the world- in fact the vast, humungous, overwhelming majority of the human race is non- romany gypsie(just think of them, we could list them if we wanted to, somalian gorgas, brazillian gorgas, jamaican gorgas- i could go on. For about 80 pages.) and the majority of us have various problems . Im sure that many Romany familys have lots of problems as well.

One problem ive seen (not first hand, but on that Killroy lives with the gypsies programme, for my sins) is rampant homophobia. Im sure there are others- in fact i am certain that Romany's experiance all the problems on your angry list. They are members of the human race and, by proxy, will have all the shortcomings of the rest of us 'Gorga's'. All god knows how many billion of us.

Published by The Sword at 9:27pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Just read the rest of the posts and now realise that 'Gorga' is not an offensive term- it just sounded like, in the initial post, it was.

@ The Baron- not big or clever really is it? people are having a serious and long overdue discussion here.

Published by The Sword at 9:45pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Narrow your list of gorja's down and find which of those groups you have listed have also experienced racist abuse and persecution throughout their history. We have respect for ALL walks of life, if we are accorded the same. Consider, we saw and read what was being said about us in this forum... did we come in all guns blazing, and cursing gorja's in general? (despite the fact we had every reason to with the disgraceful and derogatory things said about us as well as slanders, accusations and racial hatered)... no instead we drifted in like a breeze and put our point across in a dignified and mature manner. Does this not say something about the trype of people we are?
Best wishes.

Published by Rawnie at 9:49pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

That is what im getting at though. I don't think you can single a race out and say 'we have no problems but the rest of the world does' which was the definite tone of the original post that started the thread. I do not think that it is possible to judge a race or creed, only the individual. I take as i find. I realise that much of the response from Romanys has been both dignified and mature but, again, i do not think any one race is exempt from the wider problem of being a member of the human race (let's face it, we're a tricky bunch). As for not coming in all guns blazing- the initial post did exactly that.

Published by The Sword at 9:58pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Although, having now read the full thread headlined 'pikeys', i can understand the anger that tacho was obviously feeling when he wrote.

Published by The Sword at 10:03pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 10:11pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

Thank you for giving us a chance to speak and for taking the time to hear us. I can not tell you how much we all appreciate your decency as human beings... respect to you's!
Many blessings

Published by Rawnie at 10:46pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

ello sord my friend, I call you friend as already I can see you are honest and respectful. I shall clarify the first post made by my self (I am a woman by the way)(woman scorned and all that!!).
The top post wasn't just anger, it was sarcasm also that sperd me on and as I have admitted in a previous post childishness as well in "getting them all back". Please understand I believe whole heartedly that "there is good and bad in us all". There are better war's to fight than the "race" issue's. There is no such thing as a perfect any thing.
When I was made aware of this site, it was from a fellow Roamy~Gypsy, who wrote, I feel sick after reading such thing's, please reply them and we can defend our selves. I wrote back to inform all the Roamani and Gorga reader's that I was willing to throw a stone into the water and hope that the ripples continue until they join with the ripples from a stone that's also been thrown.
I shall take this opportunity to apologise to the Gorga's who are caring, intelligent and considerate, who show's respect by the conversation's that are going on, I am sorry for my above post but thank you those who tried to understand it.
Respect to those who do not hold them selves in higher importance over some one else, Sord my freind I am here in peace,

Published by tacho at 10:54pm on Wed 25th January 2006.

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Published by d-wayne-love (not active) at 12:11am on Thu 26th January 2006.

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Published by d-wayne-love (not active) at 12:15am on Thu 26th January 2006.

just like your attitude to your work eh dwl?

Published by 209radio at 12:47am on Thu 26th January 2006.

> i will never judge any one group of people be they italian, romany, spanish

Quite right.

> or worse yet,

Oh, hello, what's this

> the fucking english...

I consider myself suitably judged...

Published by makeitfolky at 12:50am on Thu 26th January 2006.

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Published by d-wayne-love (not active) at 1:19am on Thu 26th January 2006.

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Published by d-wayne-love (not active) at 1:22am on Thu 26th January 2006.

not if you're in the know man

Published by 209radio at 1:25am on Thu 26th January 2006.

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Published by d-wayne-love (not active) at 1:30am on Thu 26th January 2006.


Published by at 8:53am on Thu 26th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 10:03am on Thu 26th January 2006.


Wow!! what a great list of words I shall be sure to learn them all, along with English and Roamaness I?ll teach this to the children, including my own, what language do you call it? Don?t worry answering that one!! I have a name for that language and for the person who uses it, "deprived". I feel for you. I am sorry not to accommodate your offer for a war with words.

Published by tacho at 2:59pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 3:01pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

LOL Pupik!

Published by Rawnie at 3:27pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

How many children do you have Tacho?

Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 3:33pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

I have two. Do you have any?

Published by tacho at 3:38pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

Not human ones.

Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 3:42pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

why is this suddenly all kicking off?

Published by harvey_dangerous at 3:42pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

dogs or cats?

Published by tacho at 3:51pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

what do you mean why is this suddenly kicking off?

Published by tacho at 3:52pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

No it started at 4.49 on the 24th.

Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 4:03pm on Thu 26th January 2006.

Nope! Sorry I disagree, This all started way back in 2003. Goosey boy (I take it your a man?) How are you today? Any Roamany Blood in ya? Oh and what what is you have? Regarding children that is , if they are not human?

Published by tacho at 10:44am on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by Spanky (not active) at 10:47am on Fri 27th January 2006.

I an sorry for appearing to be dull my friend, all the time there are other's that are still happy sitting on the fence throwing stones, like most bullie's, who hide behind other' this case a pc, you see no difference in the Irish Traveller's? making them out to be a race that are all bad. I need to continue to shout Live at let live and good and bad in all. I have no problem regarding group's of people only the indaviduals, sorry to sound rude to you, but the thread mentioned Gypsy's, pikey's and Rom, can not recall reading once where you all say "you only have a problem with Traveller's". When you use the word traveller's are exsepting that "the travellers" are also Gorga's?

Published by tacho at 11:00am on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 11:02am on Fri 27th January 2006.

Thankyou Pupik for letting me in on that, why would people do that?

Published by tacho at 11:31am on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 11:32am on Fri 27th January 2006.

At the end of the day there is good and bad in every race/religion etc. There are bad Romany-Gipsies like their are bad White/Asian/Black people. But there are also good Romany-Gipsies like their are good White/Asian/Black people.

Romany Gipsies have great, geat respect for their elders, which is something that gorgas dont have. Romany Gipsies only really drink on special occasions. They dont binge drink and dont have a high rate of teenage pregnancies. As Romany-Gipsies have been bought up they have learned how to RESPECT themselves, which is something that gorgas havent. Romany-Gypsy women arent easy like gorga women, they dont sleep around.

I bet there wouldnt be a message board like this about Asian or Black people, so why do it about Romany-Gipsies?

And before you think i am a Romany-Gypsy - I aint. But i believe alot of Romanys have been given a bad name by a small minority.

Published by Charly at 11:40am on Fri 27th January 2006.

If people do register under different names can the board moderators not check Ip's that posts originate from and warn these people, as it is very sad really, if you dont have the balls to post as the same person each time then why bother postin at all?

Published by FuriousGeorge at 11:46am on Fri 27th January 2006.

To Furious George,

I have not posted on here before, so if the comment 'registering under different names' was aimed at me your WRONG!!!

Published by Charly at 11:59am on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 12:03pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by Spanky (not active) at 12:17pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

Well put.....
People thaty talk about them selves non stop are boring.

Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 12:27pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

Well, 'spanky' and 'Goose' ... first of all Arabic peoples DO speak up, and they DO stick together AND I guarantee if they came across a message board with a thread about them written in such a derogatory way they would definately bounce in and have their say.. as they would have every right to! I know this as I have Arab and Pakistani and Indian members in my family! The two can not be compared, as the issues surrounding Arabic peoples are different in many ways, and there are more other groups of ethnic peoples in this country than there are Romani~Gypsies who were the first ethnic minority to enter this country over 500 years ago! If you find this discussion 'boring' and not to your taste then don't click on it and enter into it! Simple really! There are many other threads to this site for you to join in, but thank you for your penniesworth in this one!
The discussin continues which is quite within our right, and we are answering every question put to us in a respectful manner without throwing in assumptions, name calling or accusations!
Best wishes

Published by Rawnie at 1:26pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 1:30pm on Fri 27th January 2006.



Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 1:31pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 1:33pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

"To Furious George,

I have not posted on here before, so if the comment 'registering under different names' was aimed at me your WRONG!!!"

ROFL mate, calm down, the post wasn't directed at anyone, I was simply referring to the previous post that mentioned that people do this.

Guilty conscience is it ;)

Published by FuriousGeorge at 1:34pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

Sorry I can't be bothered.
Hey Pupik get into the sounds of Hamilton Bohannon (Real funking disco)
I think you'll like it.
Can you recomend a good Labane recipe while you're at it?

Published by Goose Speaking Bread at 1:35pm on Fri 27th January 2006.

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Published by pupik (not active) at 1:41pm on Fri 27th January 2006.